I wanted to like All Fours, but your thoughts echo exactly how I felt after closing the book. What at first felt like a unique and brave delve into the complexity of human emotion and desire turned into a narcissistic manifesto on how to disentangle yourself from your family in the singular pursuit of pleasure and novelty. Great thoughts on connecting it to living in the current dopamine age.
I really enjoyed this thoughtful piece. Terms like self-actualisation, authenticity and following your passion have been the bread and butter of much counselling for years. When I worked as a family and couples therapist I wondered if this rather individualistic approach to freeing the self was a dead end. Can we be a self if abstracted from relationships, however intoxicating 'doing me' feels? Perhaps the self was waiting to be discovered in the dull fabric of close relationships. This doesn't mean long standing relationships don't still need a refresh. A shift to curiosity and exploration of that familiar person we live with. The focus on 'my needs' seems often hijacked by dopamine rush experiences that dislocate from connection to ourselves, others and overarching stories of values and meaning. I would not wish to pathologise or judge those who take up new patterns of sexual relationship. It might not be a sign of unresolved trauma but the considered exercise of personal choice. It may also be the healthiest option to leave a damaging relationship. But when it comes to real self-actualisation, I wonder if this comes via compassionate connection to the aspects of our own lives that we find hardest to live with. Not to mention the soul growing work of learning to live with others.
I read Miranda July’s All Fours (and loved it) and then I read your Fully Alive (and loved it). I think I am that polyamorous woman you imagine you might have been, were it not for your conversion (and perhaps it’s no accident that I was raised religious, and have had to find my way back to God via a circuitous route). What I loved about All Fours was the surrender to creativity - the deep dive into the womb of the generative (collective) unconscious. However, I too am deeply troubled by the way the protagonist blows up her life - in particular, by her failure of courage in navigating her marriage. Honesty is scary, but crucial to intimacy. I wish she’d stood her ground and spoken the truth. (Although I suppose one could argue that’s precisely what the book does, albeit belatedly, and under cover.)
I really enjoyed this piece, particularly the point that pleasure isn’t transformative- it isn’t. Transformation takes practice, sacrifice, work and true seeking - not a quick wild fix. As the Buddhists would say ‘before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water - after enlightenment, chop wood, carry water’
At the basis of all this seems to be why do we find it so hard to be our authentic selves most of the time? Living in the world we have to play different roles and make compromises and sacrifices etc etc, but why in the everyday and within the compromises of roles and duties we lose that so often? I didn’t grow up in a spiritual or religious tradition but maybe that helps people with a daily or at least regular practice of self reflection? Sometimes I think teaching self reflection practices at school, from a young age would be so helpful- a continual asking and coming back to who we are, what we need, how we are in the world and how we navigate it instead of somehow waking up later in life and wondering what the fuck we have done and how we got here
As a single ♀️ I used to be envious of my married friends access to sex until I found out they weren't having sex either ( for double digit years) . I remember all the brouhaha over "50 Shades of Gray" which I couldn't get past the 1st few chapters even when I was told the ending. It did seem to bring change to culture though. If a man would of wrote it - he'd probably be labeled a perv and sold less. As far as the polyamory - Philosopher Alain de Botton spoke of it as usually ending up to be more harmful for the♀️. Given cultures terminal sexist patriarchal entrenchment of emotional repression - it's always the ♀️ that are asked to adapt.
Who says libido decreases after menopause? This is not my experience. If anything once menopause is over and done with, libido is still alive and well!
When I talked about All Fours with my friends, their assessments and its apparent effects on them were far from even. They weren’t all left with a uniform desire for pleasure and freedom. We had some interesting disagreements about the central character, and the choices she made. She made some of my friends a little angry. For me, what I found valuable about the book was the way that it opened up conversations between us. These went beyond simple discussions of physical symptoms, or even sex drive. I think the book made it easier for us to start articulating, to one another, something about who we dream of becoming in this next phase of life (and who we don’t want to become, which is equally as important). Her main character was so extreme, and often so cringe, that it made my friends realize that what felt like their own odd desires were actually very “normal”. I think that was a kind of gift of the book. That openness, and the willingness to start telling new stories about ourselves (even if that just means narrating a new phase of our older selves) felt like the Miranda July effect, to me.
I echo Simone’s thoughts. I really wanted to like this book, but I found the protagonist to be unlikable. She struck me as incredibly immature, blaming her boredom on her own inability to have a meaningful conversation with her husband about wanting a deeper connection. As someone who has been sober for 15 years, chasing pleasure for pleasure’s sake alone rarely, if ever, ends well. I’m all for joy and fulfillment, but pleasure seeking and blowing up your life for an obsession over a young married dancer felt like the answer for someone who is too afraid to look at themselves and dig a bit deeper. She reminded me of people who stay in shallow water—seeking easy answers or quick fixes to the human condition—because they are afraid of wading into deep waters where things are more mysterious and unknown. But that is just my take.
I’m glad to know I’m not alone though in not loving this book like so many have.
Reading about this Miranda July thing makes me want to scream "grow up people!" You mention the challenges in midlife of "responsibility, disillusionment, a sense of diminishing possibilities". All I can say is wait till you get to retirement age! And I for one can tell you it's not true that a woman's sex drive diminishes after menopause. If you are bored with your spouse at any age, you are lacking in imagination. Sex without a meaningful relationship based on devotion to each other is simply a cheap thrill.
I wanted to like All Fours, but your thoughts echo exactly how I felt after closing the book. What at first felt like a unique and brave delve into the complexity of human emotion and desire turned into a narcissistic manifesto on how to disentangle yourself from your family in the singular pursuit of pleasure and novelty. Great thoughts on connecting it to living in the current dopamine age.
I really enjoyed this thoughtful piece. Terms like self-actualisation, authenticity and following your passion have been the bread and butter of much counselling for years. When I worked as a family and couples therapist I wondered if this rather individualistic approach to freeing the self was a dead end. Can we be a self if abstracted from relationships, however intoxicating 'doing me' feels? Perhaps the self was waiting to be discovered in the dull fabric of close relationships. This doesn't mean long standing relationships don't still need a refresh. A shift to curiosity and exploration of that familiar person we live with. The focus on 'my needs' seems often hijacked by dopamine rush experiences that dislocate from connection to ourselves, others and overarching stories of values and meaning. I would not wish to pathologise or judge those who take up new patterns of sexual relationship. It might not be a sign of unresolved trauma but the considered exercise of personal choice. It may also be the healthiest option to leave a damaging relationship. But when it comes to real self-actualisation, I wonder if this comes via compassionate connection to the aspects of our own lives that we find hardest to live with. Not to mention the soul growing work of learning to live with others.
I read Miranda July’s All Fours (and loved it) and then I read your Fully Alive (and loved it). I think I am that polyamorous woman you imagine you might have been, were it not for your conversion (and perhaps it’s no accident that I was raised religious, and have had to find my way back to God via a circuitous route). What I loved about All Fours was the surrender to creativity - the deep dive into the womb of the generative (collective) unconscious. However, I too am deeply troubled by the way the protagonist blows up her life - in particular, by her failure of courage in navigating her marriage. Honesty is scary, but crucial to intimacy. I wish she’d stood her ground and spoken the truth. (Although I suppose one could argue that’s precisely what the book does, albeit belatedly, and under cover.)
I really enjoyed this piece, particularly the point that pleasure isn’t transformative- it isn’t. Transformation takes practice, sacrifice, work and true seeking - not a quick wild fix. As the Buddhists would say ‘before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water - after enlightenment, chop wood, carry water’
At the basis of all this seems to be why do we find it so hard to be our authentic selves most of the time? Living in the world we have to play different roles and make compromises and sacrifices etc etc, but why in the everyday and within the compromises of roles and duties we lose that so often? I didn’t grow up in a spiritual or religious tradition but maybe that helps people with a daily or at least regular practice of self reflection? Sometimes I think teaching self reflection practices at school, from a young age would be so helpful- a continual asking and coming back to who we are, what we need, how we are in the world and how we navigate it instead of somehow waking up later in life and wondering what the fuck we have done and how we got here
As a single ♀️ I used to be envious of my married friends access to sex until I found out they weren't having sex either ( for double digit years) . I remember all the brouhaha over "50 Shades of Gray" which I couldn't get past the 1st few chapters even when I was told the ending. It did seem to bring change to culture though. If a man would of wrote it - he'd probably be labeled a perv and sold less. As far as the polyamory - Philosopher Alain de Botton spoke of it as usually ending up to be more harmful for the♀️. Given cultures terminal sexist patriarchal entrenchment of emotional repression - it's always the ♀️ that are asked to adapt.
Who says libido decreases after menopause? This is not my experience. If anything once menopause is over and done with, libido is still alive and well!
Glad to hear it! Yes that is the books claim but then it complicates it….
When I talked about All Fours with my friends, their assessments and its apparent effects on them were far from even. They weren’t all left with a uniform desire for pleasure and freedom. We had some interesting disagreements about the central character, and the choices she made. She made some of my friends a little angry. For me, what I found valuable about the book was the way that it opened up conversations between us. These went beyond simple discussions of physical symptoms, or even sex drive. I think the book made it easier for us to start articulating, to one another, something about who we dream of becoming in this next phase of life (and who we don’t want to become, which is equally as important). Her main character was so extreme, and often so cringe, that it made my friends realize that what felt like their own odd desires were actually very “normal”. I think that was a kind of gift of the book. That openness, and the willingness to start telling new stories about ourselves (even if that just means narrating a new phase of our older selves) felt like the Miranda July effect, to me.
I echo Simone’s thoughts. I really wanted to like this book, but I found the protagonist to be unlikable. She struck me as incredibly immature, blaming her boredom on her own inability to have a meaningful conversation with her husband about wanting a deeper connection. As someone who has been sober for 15 years, chasing pleasure for pleasure’s sake alone rarely, if ever, ends well. I’m all for joy and fulfillment, but pleasure seeking and blowing up your life for an obsession over a young married dancer felt like the answer for someone who is too afraid to look at themselves and dig a bit deeper. She reminded me of people who stay in shallow water—seeking easy answers or quick fixes to the human condition—because they are afraid of wading into deep waters where things are more mysterious and unknown. But that is just my take.
I’m glad to know I’m not alone though in not loving this book like so many have.
Reading about this Miranda July thing makes me want to scream "grow up people!" You mention the challenges in midlife of "responsibility, disillusionment, a sense of diminishing possibilities". All I can say is wait till you get to retirement age! And I for one can tell you it's not true that a woman's sex drive diminishes after menopause. If you are bored with your spouse at any age, you are lacking in imagination. Sex without a meaningful relationship based on devotion to each other is simply a cheap thrill.
A very interesting and thought provoking read. Thanks Elizabeth
Thank you! Yes, it’s complex