Spiritual practices , when rightly understood, are meant to help you build the capacities to turn toward rather than turn away: from pain , discomfort, rejection, differences. I so like your framing of “turn the other cheek” this way.
Developmental perspectives can illustrate how we can recognize connection across ever more subtle layers of meaning making.
I think the degree of our present global inter connectedness is unprecedented and massive. And also threatening. Which historically men and women have experienced differently. Such a rich discussion. Thanks
The embrace of discomfort has a long history in the church - at one extreme, the early Apostles deliberately putting themselves at risk of stoning, arrest, imprisonment, torture, and death, to the desert fathers living on the very edge of survivability, to the hessian robes of penitents from the medieval to the modern era. We tend to frown on such asceticism and risk-taking behaviour these days, but it has a purpose - what Katherine May [https://amzn.to/3DivMoc] describes as 'induced crises'.
It's a bit more than just being uncomfortable - it's being pushed beyond the edge of who we are and our resources to find a radical dependency on the other - ie God. But the journey to that point teaches us to love the other and embrace those we would not usually like or tolerate - again, a central tenet of Jesus' teaching. I'm still working out how to walk that road today (long-distance running? fasting? hanging out with people with different opinions and lifestyle choices to me?).
One recent, relatively mild step I took was hanging out with friends and family at the local gay pride event. As a heterosexual, cis-gendered, late-middle-aged, white, Christian man, I was probably in the minority. It was not that hard, really, but from my evangelical /charismatic tradition, it was not an automatically comfortable place to be. However, in the end, it was, and everyone was lovely.
What looks like a mountain before us turns out to be a small hill in the rear-view mirror.
I live in a pretty liberal, open small town in the south of England and love it for those reasons (lots of people like me?) in our local community orchard there will be wassailing in January and story telling every Monday evening in the summer there - it’s that kind of place. I feel I am a million miles away from, have nothing in common with say a full on MAGA supporter in the US - but a group of MAGA supporters at a bar-b-q are just doing the same thing as me in my cosy liberal town orchard - love of place, of home - grounding, being in community,understanding that is important, appreciating the past and the history of where I’m from and all of those deep connections. The expression of that is very different, but fundamental desire and need is the same and I try and remind myself of this when comfortable with people like me
I am glad that the resistance against cancel culture is thriving. Your Sacred podcast remains an important endeavour of the rebellion, to thank you. x
"we live in a culture which discourages us from tolerating discomfort" -- the algo culture encourages the weaponisation of discomfort. The mechanics of the buttons 'users' keep bashing -- have programmed people literally, to respond in machine terms.
Being surrounded by various community members does provide some immunity somehow, specifically when it's filled with blood relations -- one is trained to experience one can love and like, without loving or liking every-thing about them.
Because "some things are more important than fear" from the Gospel According to Disney (Princess Diaries). The research behind Leadersmithing looked at amygdala templating in the same way you describe: how do you build the muscle memory to buy yourself 'bullet time' under pressure? It supports your account of building up inoculation through exposure and puts some thinking about heart-rate and memory against it. TEDx script refers here: https://evepoole.com/leadersmithing-tedx/
Felt I needed to comment! Just because, as it happens, I had just finished listening to the debate on your podcast when I read this, so of course I had to go look at the comments on YouTube via the link you share and - well - most of them are nice.
Well actually most of them are just Bible verses from the same person but most of the rest are nice. There were some negative ones, but not so many or so bad, compared to what I was expecting from the description.
Is it because the video's on a different YouTube channel as well and has attracted nastier comments there?
Such a good piece, thanks Elizabeth. The Relaxation Response (a useful general term for the nervous system training you and Grant Morgan are pointing to, as well as how many phobias are treated) is the single most important process in improving my life, and that of countless of my T'ai chi colleagues and students over the years. In the context of martial arts, it was how a conflict-avoidant, slouchy loner such as myself ever learned how to stay upright and grounded around people without being scared or perplexed all the time. For me it was going to class up to three times a week for decades, getting pushed and pushed again by all kinds of people, including big strong men, and wiry, wily, women and seeing where their pushes were really coming from, rather than being frightened by the appearance of things.
Eventually the 'self' you think you're defending in 'self-defence' can fall away, if you are lucky, and leave something a bit more spacious, more than resilient, but even anti-fragile. That is what I see in your work too, and it makes me glad. Merry Christmas!
As an expat Aussie male, living in Canada, I find that my worldview, habitually communal, is becoming insular and critical. Along with the mental arthritis of a 75 year old I am fast becoming a person I don’t like. Your philosophy is a real help as it resonates in me and requires a return to social and mental gymnastics. You’re forcing me to review and change. Thank you and apologies for at least one technical misstep as I post. Gremlins appear everywhere when I go electronic.
Thank you for this reflection which I enjoyed listening to whilst ironing. I’m a 70 something man.
I have also enjoyed listening to you when talking to Glen Scrivener on Speak Life.
May I ask that when you record the audio of your reflection, you record it in stereo rather than only on one channel.
This may of course not be possible. When I record a reading from our original lectern in the church building, and then edit the track using Audacity, the mono recording shows as one track only.
Thanks again for recording your reflections on Substack. I am an avid listener to podcasts (for example, Speak Life) as it means I can do other things whilst listening (such as ironing). 😊
May I wish you a peaceful and blessed Christmas. Thanks again.
Wonderful posts, to which I’d like to add.
Spiritual practices , when rightly understood, are meant to help you build the capacities to turn toward rather than turn away: from pain , discomfort, rejection, differences. I so like your framing of “turn the other cheek” this way.
Developmental perspectives can illustrate how we can recognize connection across ever more subtle layers of meaning making.
I think the degree of our present global inter connectedness is unprecedented and massive. And also threatening. Which historically men and women have experienced differently. Such a rich discussion. Thanks
The embrace of discomfort has a long history in the church - at one extreme, the early Apostles deliberately putting themselves at risk of stoning, arrest, imprisonment, torture, and death, to the desert fathers living on the very edge of survivability, to the hessian robes of penitents from the medieval to the modern era. We tend to frown on such asceticism and risk-taking behaviour these days, but it has a purpose - what Katherine May [https://amzn.to/3DivMoc] describes as 'induced crises'.
It's a bit more than just being uncomfortable - it's being pushed beyond the edge of who we are and our resources to find a radical dependency on the other - ie God. But the journey to that point teaches us to love the other and embrace those we would not usually like or tolerate - again, a central tenet of Jesus' teaching. I'm still working out how to walk that road today (long-distance running? fasting? hanging out with people with different opinions and lifestyle choices to me?).
One recent, relatively mild step I took was hanging out with friends and family at the local gay pride event. As a heterosexual, cis-gendered, late-middle-aged, white, Christian man, I was probably in the minority. It was not that hard, really, but from my evangelical /charismatic tradition, it was not an automatically comfortable place to be. However, in the end, it was, and everyone was lovely.
What looks like a mountain before us turns out to be a small hill in the rear-view mirror.
I live in a pretty liberal, open small town in the south of England and love it for those reasons (lots of people like me?) in our local community orchard there will be wassailing in January and story telling every Monday evening in the summer there - it’s that kind of place. I feel I am a million miles away from, have nothing in common with say a full on MAGA supporter in the US - but a group of MAGA supporters at a bar-b-q are just doing the same thing as me in my cosy liberal town orchard - love of place, of home - grounding, being in community,understanding that is important, appreciating the past and the history of where I’m from and all of those deep connections. The expression of that is very different, but fundamental desire and need is the same and I try and remind myself of this when comfortable with people like me
I love this and more people should read this. We need more resilience!
I am glad that the resistance against cancel culture is thriving. Your Sacred podcast remains an important endeavour of the rebellion, to thank you. x
"we live in a culture which discourages us from tolerating discomfort" -- the algo culture encourages the weaponisation of discomfort. The mechanics of the buttons 'users' keep bashing -- have programmed people literally, to respond in machine terms.
Being surrounded by various community members does provide some immunity somehow, specifically when it's filled with blood relations -- one is trained to experience one can love and like, without loving or liking every-thing about them.
My piece of reportage on the 'not one of us' battlefield: https://holyhandgrenades.substack.com/p/fire-burn-and-cauldron-bubble-part
Because "some things are more important than fear" from the Gospel According to Disney (Princess Diaries). The research behind Leadersmithing looked at amygdala templating in the same way you describe: how do you build the muscle memory to buy yourself 'bullet time' under pressure? It supports your account of building up inoculation through exposure and puts some thinking about heart-rate and memory against it. TEDx script refers here: https://evepoole.com/leadersmithing-tedx/
Felt I needed to comment! Just because, as it happens, I had just finished listening to the debate on your podcast when I read this, so of course I had to go look at the comments on YouTube via the link you share and - well - most of them are nice.
Well actually most of them are just Bible verses from the same person but most of the rest are nice. There were some negative ones, but not so many or so bad, compared to what I was expecting from the description.
Is it because the video's on a different YouTube channel as well and has attracted nastier comments there?
Such a good piece, thanks Elizabeth. The Relaxation Response (a useful general term for the nervous system training you and Grant Morgan are pointing to, as well as how many phobias are treated) is the single most important process in improving my life, and that of countless of my T'ai chi colleagues and students over the years. In the context of martial arts, it was how a conflict-avoidant, slouchy loner such as myself ever learned how to stay upright and grounded around people without being scared or perplexed all the time. For me it was going to class up to three times a week for decades, getting pushed and pushed again by all kinds of people, including big strong men, and wiry, wily, women and seeing where their pushes were really coming from, rather than being frightened by the appearance of things.
Eventually the 'self' you think you're defending in 'self-defence' can fall away, if you are lucky, and leave something a bit more spacious, more than resilient, but even anti-fragile. That is what I see in your work too, and it makes me glad. Merry Christmas!
As an expat Aussie male, living in Canada, I find that my worldview, habitually communal, is becoming insular and critical. Along with the mental arthritis of a 75 year old I am fast becoming a person I don’t like. Your philosophy is a real help as it resonates in me and requires a return to social and mental gymnastics. You’re forcing me to review and change. Thank you and apologies for at least one technical misstep as I post. Gremlins appear everywhere when I go electronic.
Dear Elizabeth
Thank you for this reflection which I enjoyed listening to whilst ironing. I’m a 70 something man.
I have also enjoyed listening to you when talking to Glen Scrivener on Speak Life.
May I ask that when you record the audio of your reflection, you record it in stereo rather than only on one channel.
This may of course not be possible. When I record a reading from our original lectern in the church building, and then edit the track using Audacity, the mono recording shows as one track only.
Thanks again for recording your reflections on Substack. I am an avid listener to podcasts (for example, Speak Life) as it means I can do other things whilst listening (such as ironing). 😊
May I wish you a peaceful and blessed Christmas. Thanks again.
Ian Lawrence