Loved getting to meet you and interact with you. Love your heart in all this. Would love the opportunity to spend more time with you.
I was going to find you during the conference and ask about communes, but too many people, too little time.
I also strongly dislike the dynamic of talking to “microcelebrities” (as Grizwald Grim calls them) at events like this. My speed is much more smaller groups, possibly over food and drink, at a home.
Your presence and words were a much needed tension in the necessary antimonies of God’s varied graces. Eros! Love!
I wish I could have made it to Midwestuary to meet you and hear your talk. The content of TLC-type discussions is generally upstream from political "of the moment" issues but during intense periods it inevitably bubbles up. I am so glad you were there and able to share your perspective, and be the willing feminine voice among a male-dominated space (which I say lovingly, I have been part of this little corner of friends for many years now, and many of them are precious to me).
Wow. I don’t have even one percent of your bravery, Elizabeth. I had a dream last night that I was selected randomly out of all US citizens to travel to Washington, DC to stand next to Donald Trump at a football game ceremony. I absolutely refused to go and then woke up as my family and friends looked at me in wonder. I know he is a human being and if he walked into the room where I’m sitting right now, alone and with no cameras, and I could actually have a conversation with him then that would be an encounter worth something. So I think the settings you choose to put yourself into often mean that the cards are stacked against allowing for real encounter. But then the audience may come away with gentler perspectives. May God continue to guide you to be “brave and clear and kind” as you do this extraordinarily beneficial work.
Thank you for coming to the Midwestuary. I’m glad you were there.
That was indeed a tense moment and when we broke out into our discussion groups we were definitely talking about it. We do need to talk across divides and seek to understand each other, even if we don’t agree in the end. As you say, “rehumanizing”.
You were perfect (or as close as possible) at Midwestuary. I too cringed at the *token woman* aspect of your presence on an otherwise very male stage. I love many of the people in that room, but I find many of them challenging as well.
Thank you for sharing your reflections on the conference and your interactions.
My take-away from the conversation between you and Rod Dreher was that the audience seemed to be equally represented by both perspectives being offered -- I heard an equal amount of applause for each of you. I align myself with your perspective, but I was able to listen to Rod without shutting down, thanks in part to your prayer. I was so grateful you took that moment - none of the other presenters would have done so - and I am Jewish, so I appreciated you asking first, but it was so centering to evoke the sacred in that moment.
I deeply appreciate what you share with the world, and I am so glad you attended and you seemed to move with grace and agility throughout the conference. One of my favorite moments of Midwestuary was at the end, when the brass band joined in When the Saints Come Marching In and we all danced out after them, and Rod waived a kerchief New Orleans style as he danced.
I find hope in Estuary - I have participated in an Estuary Group since about 2021. I have grown more open and loving as a result of the warmth I feel toward group members (mostly male) who have very different viewpoints from my own. I sometimes think I should leave and allow it to be an all-male space, but our Estuary members vociferously ask me to stay. Not only am I the only woman, I am also the only Jew in our Estuary, and I find that my being there does seem to have the effect of reminding members that not everyone thinks like they do.
While the mostly male atmosphere can sometimes make me uncomfortable, I remind myself how important it is for men to have these spaces to engage in community, to explore their spirituality, to engage in deep thought, to demonstrate care. I do think being in Estuary softens even the most *red pilled* among them.
Glad you were able to engage with this space! I'm running an Estuary in South Wales (or trying to... very small so far!) I would have been very interested to have gone to Midwestuary, if finances and family commitments had allowed, but not easy for me to hop over to the US. I do find a lot of the political discussion in TLC spaces rather uncomfortable too, coming from more lefty-liberal assumptions (which seem to me a better fit for Christian ethics, though not mapping straightforwardly onto our left-right axis). But the emphasis on human connection and listening to one another is very important.
I still think you’re a bad ass, even if I disagree. We met in line at MWE and made a small invite to my podcast! I happen to be typing this comment from Little Rock, even though we met in Chicago! Look forward to continuing to see you round the corner. Oh and by being the only female in a conference line up, it actually intensifies the feminine energy and creates more distinction for your message. Through tone, presence, and perspective.
Elizabeth, thank you! You describe standing in the "tragic gap" well. The gap between what is and what should be. I can't help but hope when I hear about true human encounter...it is happening everywhere, that I promise you. It's also not happening all the time. But, this is the way of things, it seems. Good is growing among us-- whether we know it or not.
Elizabeth. I sat across from you at the Supra. I am also a member of the Chicago group that hosted the event.
I also thank you for coming, and I'm glad you were there.
I think you know that the principal theme of the Midwestuary (and the Estuary groups around the country) is the search for meaning in modern society and not conservatism. I do not disagree that there is definitely a conservative slant to the members I know, but it is not, I think, the major purpose we are there. I myself struggle to navigate the highly polarized society I live in.
The moment you refer to when the immigration question was raised was amazing to me. Starting with your prayer (amazing! -- I would love to see that happen in discussions between other people), I witnessed a calm, respectful conversation on a very difficult subject to discuss.
Thanks again for being there.
P.S.
I'm sorry that I did not know more about you at the time of the Supra. I am listening to your audiobook (which is wonderful in both its content and the quality of your narration). I wish I had done that before the Supra! Maybe someday we will run into each other in London.)
First of all, I want to personally thank you for being at Midwestuary. We did not get a chance to meet, though I believe you did meet my wife. She was the one who asked the question about feminism, which was supposed to be directed to you, and which you almost didn't get to answer.
TLC is a little more politically diverse than your first impression, though it does slant right. My wife Sara Eve and I are examples of some of more surprising elements of the TLC cocktail. My wife studied Women's studies at the notoriously progressive UC Santa Cruz (Go Banana Slugs) and I attended both The Evergreen State College (the infamous one of Bret Weinstien fame) and Thomas Aquinas College which was just named by the New York Post as the most conservative college in America, so like you I am actually quite hard to pin down, and usually identify as a Christian Anarchist. My wife and I were campaign volunteers for Andrew Yang immediately prior to my becoming involved in TLC. My first encounter with Paul Vanderklay's denomination was in Sioux Center Iowa and I convinced a CRC pastor there to speak for Yang at Caucus. Little did I know how entangled my life was about to become with people associated with the CRC. A hippie Christian Anarchist Universalists befriending a bunch of Calvinists was a very unlikely thing to happen but it did. You have the spirt TLC is trying to spread already. It is evident to me that your prioritize relationality above everything else, and that's what so many of us are trying to do as well, especially the corner of the corner I happen to be associated with also known as Grail Country.
One of my roles in TLC other than being the guy who cooks awesome BBQ and hosts the best after parties (hospitality is my super power), is as the conference liaison for the Estuary Leadership council. I sincerely hope you'd consider coming to another conference in the future, I don't think anyone understands what we are trying to better than you do, and I wish I had got the chance to tell you so.
I was in the room at Midwestuary, and felt that you did a great job trying to diffuse potential strife, presenting your point of view with courage, and ultimately trying to find a synthesis or at least a consensus where possible - I loved your approach, and felt that praying first was absolutely appropriate.
Thank you for "bringing it", and whether or not you "changed anyone's mind", you absolutely modeled a way of interacting about a lightning rod topic that (from my perspective) maintained the humanity of each participant and yet expressed your point of view without being bulldozed.
I had never heard of you before the conference :-) but loved your talk and your overall "spirit", and am excited to follow your writings and content. Keep it up!
Ahhhh, I wanted so badly to get to this conference - I had a bunch of pals from the Minneapolis Estuary branch there. What you describe is what it’s lime constantly living in the US right now. And I am trying to make “space and grace” (as tell my kids) for all different neighbors with their unique personhoods. I am so glad that you and Rod were able to bravely embark on such a conversation. Raising my glass tonight to more of those! God bless you and the work of your hands.
Thank you Elizabeth for showing us (again) what it looks like to be fully engaged with another human amidst messy, stressful conflict (wow that immigration / migration discussion!) It was lovely to meet you in person, and (like @Luke Thompson!) I hope one day for a proper conversation.
Loved getting to meet you and interact with you. Love your heart in all this. Would love the opportunity to spend more time with you.
I was going to find you during the conference and ask about communes, but too many people, too little time.
I also strongly dislike the dynamic of talking to “microcelebrities” (as Grizwald Grim calls them) at events like this. My speed is much more smaller groups, possibly over food and drink, at a home.
Your presence and words were a much needed tension in the necessary antimonies of God’s varied graces. Eros! Love!
God bless.
I wish I could have made it to Midwestuary to meet you and hear your talk. The content of TLC-type discussions is generally upstream from political "of the moment" issues but during intense periods it inevitably bubbles up. I am so glad you were there and able to share your perspective, and be the willing feminine voice among a male-dominated space (which I say lovingly, I have been part of this little corner of friends for many years now, and many of them are precious to me).
Thank you!
Wow. I don’t have even one percent of your bravery, Elizabeth. I had a dream last night that I was selected randomly out of all US citizens to travel to Washington, DC to stand next to Donald Trump at a football game ceremony. I absolutely refused to go and then woke up as my family and friends looked at me in wonder. I know he is a human being and if he walked into the room where I’m sitting right now, alone and with no cameras, and I could actually have a conversation with him then that would be an encounter worth something. So I think the settings you choose to put yourself into often mean that the cards are stacked against allowing for real encounter. But then the audience may come away with gentler perspectives. May God continue to guide you to be “brave and clear and kind” as you do this extraordinarily beneficial work.
i appreciate your encouragement Suzanne. We have different callings and different courages
Very true. That’s good to keep in mind!
Thank you for coming to the Midwestuary. I’m glad you were there.
That was indeed a tense moment and when we broke out into our discussion groups we were definitely talking about it. We do need to talk across divides and seek to understand each other, even if we don’t agree in the end. As you say, “rehumanizing”.
Dear Elizabeth,
You were perfect (or as close as possible) at Midwestuary. I too cringed at the *token woman* aspect of your presence on an otherwise very male stage. I love many of the people in that room, but I find many of them challenging as well.
Thank you for sharing your reflections on the conference and your interactions.
My take-away from the conversation between you and Rod Dreher was that the audience seemed to be equally represented by both perspectives being offered -- I heard an equal amount of applause for each of you. I align myself with your perspective, but I was able to listen to Rod without shutting down, thanks in part to your prayer. I was so grateful you took that moment - none of the other presenters would have done so - and I am Jewish, so I appreciated you asking first, but it was so centering to evoke the sacred in that moment.
I deeply appreciate what you share with the world, and I am so glad you attended and you seemed to move with grace and agility throughout the conference. One of my favorite moments of Midwestuary was at the end, when the brass band joined in When the Saints Come Marching In and we all danced out after them, and Rod waived a kerchief New Orleans style as he danced.
I find hope in Estuary - I have participated in an Estuary Group since about 2021. I have grown more open and loving as a result of the warmth I feel toward group members (mostly male) who have very different viewpoints from my own. I sometimes think I should leave and allow it to be an all-male space, but our Estuary members vociferously ask me to stay. Not only am I the only woman, I am also the only Jew in our Estuary, and I find that my being there does seem to have the effect of reminding members that not everyone thinks like they do.
While the mostly male atmosphere can sometimes make me uncomfortable, I remind myself how important it is for men to have these spaces to engage in community, to explore their spirituality, to engage in deep thought, to demonstrate care. I do think being in Estuary softens even the most *red pilled* among them.
Glad you were able to engage with this space! I'm running an Estuary in South Wales (or trying to... very small so far!) I would have been very interested to have gone to Midwestuary, if finances and family commitments had allowed, but not easy for me to hop over to the US. I do find a lot of the political discussion in TLC spaces rather uncomfortable too, coming from more lefty-liberal assumptions (which seem to me a better fit for Christian ethics, though not mapping straightforwardly onto our left-right axis). But the emphasis on human connection and listening to one another is very important.
Keep going! They seem like really fruitful spaces
I still think you’re a bad ass, even if I disagree. We met in line at MWE and made a small invite to my podcast! I happen to be typing this comment from Little Rock, even though we met in Chicago! Look forward to continuing to see you round the corner. Oh and by being the only female in a conference line up, it actually intensifies the feminine energy and creates more distinction for your message. Through tone, presence, and perspective.
Thank you for your courage.
Of course! Glad to have met you
Elizabeth, thank you! You describe standing in the "tragic gap" well. The gap between what is and what should be. I can't help but hope when I hear about true human encounter...it is happening everywhere, that I promise you. It's also not happening all the time. But, this is the way of things, it seems. Good is growing among us-- whether we know it or not.
Elizabeth. I sat across from you at the Supra. I am also a member of the Chicago group that hosted the event.
I also thank you for coming, and I'm glad you were there.
I think you know that the principal theme of the Midwestuary (and the Estuary groups around the country) is the search for meaning in modern society and not conservatism. I do not disagree that there is definitely a conservative slant to the members I know, but it is not, I think, the major purpose we are there. I myself struggle to navigate the highly polarized society I live in.
The moment you refer to when the immigration question was raised was amazing to me. Starting with your prayer (amazing! -- I would love to see that happen in discussions between other people), I witnessed a calm, respectful conversation on a very difficult subject to discuss.
Thanks again for being there.
P.S.
I'm sorry that I did not know more about you at the time of the Supra. I am listening to your audiobook (which is wonderful in both its content and the quality of your narration). I wish I had done that before the Supra! Maybe someday we will run into each other in London.)
Thank you!
First of all, I want to personally thank you for being at Midwestuary. We did not get a chance to meet, though I believe you did meet my wife. She was the one who asked the question about feminism, which was supposed to be directed to you, and which you almost didn't get to answer.
TLC is a little more politically diverse than your first impression, though it does slant right. My wife Sara Eve and I are examples of some of more surprising elements of the TLC cocktail. My wife studied Women's studies at the notoriously progressive UC Santa Cruz (Go Banana Slugs) and I attended both The Evergreen State College (the infamous one of Bret Weinstien fame) and Thomas Aquinas College which was just named by the New York Post as the most conservative college in America, so like you I am actually quite hard to pin down, and usually identify as a Christian Anarchist. My wife and I were campaign volunteers for Andrew Yang immediately prior to my becoming involved in TLC. My first encounter with Paul Vanderklay's denomination was in Sioux Center Iowa and I convinced a CRC pastor there to speak for Yang at Caucus. Little did I know how entangled my life was about to become with people associated with the CRC. A hippie Christian Anarchist Universalists befriending a bunch of Calvinists was a very unlikely thing to happen but it did. You have the spirt TLC is trying to spread already. It is evident to me that your prioritize relationality above everything else, and that's what so many of us are trying to do as well, especially the corner of the corner I happen to be associated with also known as Grail Country.
One of my roles in TLC other than being the guy who cooks awesome BBQ and hosts the best after parties (hospitality is my super power), is as the conference liaison for the Estuary Leadership council. I sincerely hope you'd consider coming to another conference in the future, I don't think anyone understands what we are trying to better than you do, and I wish I had got the chance to tell you so.
That is a great super power. And thank you
I was in the room at Midwestuary, and felt that you did a great job trying to diffuse potential strife, presenting your point of view with courage, and ultimately trying to find a synthesis or at least a consensus where possible - I loved your approach, and felt that praying first was absolutely appropriate.
Thank you for "bringing it", and whether or not you "changed anyone's mind", you absolutely modeled a way of interacting about a lightning rod topic that (from my perspective) maintained the humanity of each participant and yet expressed your point of view without being bulldozed.
I had never heard of you before the conference :-) but loved your talk and your overall "spirit", and am excited to follow your writings and content. Keep it up!
Thank you Kennon!
Oh Elizabeth this was exactly what I needed to read this morning. Thank you so much. ❤️❤️❤️
Ahhhh, I wanted so badly to get to this conference - I had a bunch of pals from the Minneapolis Estuary branch there. What you describe is what it’s lime constantly living in the US right now. And I am trying to make “space and grace” (as tell my kids) for all different neighbors with their unique personhoods. I am so glad that you and Rod were able to bravely embark on such a conversation. Raising my glass tonight to more of those! God bless you and the work of your hands.
Thank you Elizabeth for showing us (again) what it looks like to be fully engaged with another human amidst messy, stressful conflict (wow that immigration / migration discussion!) It was lovely to meet you in person, and (like @Luke Thompson!) I hope one day for a proper conversation.
Thank you so much for being there Kim
From your lips to G-d's ears, my dear. Thank you, always.
I’m so glad I know you.x